Friday, September 5, 2008

A "Mission from God"



Remember the movie The Blues Brothers? I lived in Chicago at the time it came out, and back then, it was relatively rare to see a movie set in the Windy City, so watching that movie remains a vivid memory for me.

A nun asks two paroled convicts to earn $5,000 to save the orphanage in which they grew up, so whenever any obstacles turn up, the brothers trot out the phrase "We're on a mission from God." It was one of the biggest punch lines of the movie.

I admit it, I laughed. In the context of the movie, it was a funny line.

It's not so amusing when Sarah Palin says it.

On June 8, she said the following in a speech:
Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God.
In a democracy which has separation of church and state as one of its basic principles, "God's will" has no place in the justification for going to war.

The ayatollahs of Iran use "God's will" as their reason for going to war. The United States should not.

Our country is not a theocracy. It is a democracy based on rule of law. I have felt for a long time that the concept of "rule of law" is not stressed sufficiently in our social studies classrooms. Quite simply, it means that no one is above the law--not the president, not the chief justice of the supreme court, not the richest person in America or the poorest.

When we invaded Iraq, we did it to take down a dictator and supporter of terrorism. The trouble is that the international community has conventions for when war is justified. This situation doesn't meet any of those standards. Yes, Saddam Hussein had done many terrible things in the past--and the first Gulf War was justified under international law. The war in Afghanistan is justified. The 2003 invasion of Iraq is not.

We simply cannot go around invading every country that we think is building up weapons or that we think opposes us. International law isn't really that much different from criminal law. If I see someone carrying a gun across the street, and I shoot him before he can come into my yard, that's not self-defense. It's murder. If, however, he is actually crawling into the window of my bedroom and I act, it is self-defense.

I can hear the sputtering coming from some quarters now: "But, but, but, you mean we have to wait until we're hit to fight back?"

More or less, yes. That's what determines the difference between an illegal war of aggression and a justified war. If an act of aggression is committed against you or one of your allies, then you can fight back with complete justification. In Iraq, the situation was a little more complicated because the country was under UN sanctions because of Saddam Hussein's past international crimes. Under those sanctions, Iraq was forbidden to engage in creating weapons of mass destruction, and violations of the sanctions would have been grounds for further punishment. That's why it was so necessary for the Bush administration to prove the existence of WMD before they invaded, a task they failed miserably. We did not establish adequate grounds for the invasion, and in fact lied about the "evidence" that we had. That puts us in the position of being the one who initiated hostilities.

We have been in the wrong with this war since day one. It doesn't matter if you think Saddam "had it coming" or you feel convinced that he would have gotten around to sponsoring an attack on us eventually. Under the rule of law, we don't have a leg to stand on, and the whole world knows it. Many people like to portray this situation as being like World War II, in which the United States lent its might to save the world from dictatorship. This is not the same situation at all. We were the aggressor, the initiator. We're the criminal here, not Saddam Hussein.

Do you know why the Soviet Union occupied Eastern Europe so long? Sure, they wanted to spread communism, but that was only one motive. The other motive was the desire for self-defense. Russia has no natural defenses on its western borders. The Northern European Plain is a vast flatland that makes it easy for armies to invade Russia (or the Soviet Union) from the west. It happened during the Napoleonic Wars and it happened again in World War II. The Soviet Union had one of the highest death tolls of any country in World War II. They wanted to defend themselves by creating a buffer zone of "friendly" states. So they occupied Eastern Europe and set up Communist governments there.

Their desire to protect themselves was perfectly understandable, but they went about it the wrong way. An illegal and ultimately futile way. They did it in an oppressive way that was bound to make people rise up against them in opposition. Which is exactly what happened.

What we're doing now in Iraq is not much different from what they did. We invaded and are occupying a sovereign nation that had not attacked us because we think it will make us safer. But all it has done is earn us the animosity of much of the world. And Iraq is no safer now than it was when we invaded five long years ago.

When I hear the Republican vice presidential nominee speak of this illegal war as a task from God, it chills me to the core. That's jihadist talk, the rhetoric of holy war. It's the kind of propaganda used by Osama bin Laden.

Is that what this country has come to? Have we become the very thing we're fighting?

Or can we turn back to our democratic principles before it's too late.

39 comments:

jenniferw said...

I'm good with it, especially in light of B. Hussein Obama's "pastor," the Reverend Wright, proclaiming that God damns America. Spewing anti-American rhetoric in earsplitting screams during a "sermon" is fine for him to do, but it is offensive for Sarah Palin to say at a political convention that God wants us to win a war against Islamic terrorists who hate America? I don't think so.

America is a country founded on Christian principles. No matter how much folks want to change that, it cannot be changed because it already happened. You and I benefit from that fact to this day. The more we forsake God in our country, the more sad and sick our country will become.

B. Hussein Obama has stood firmly against any restraint on abortion ... up to and including partial birth abortion, a gruesome process in which a baby is murdered with scissors and a suction syringe before its body is all the way out of its mother. He also voted against saving the lives of children who are aborted but who refuse to die immediately. He voted against informing parents of minor girls that their daughter is about to have an abortion.

We have murdered forty million children in America in the past thirty-five years. If that is the rule of law, then you may keep the rule of law, my friend, and I will stand on the side of God Almighty, who hates our sins of immorality and its heartbreaking corollary, the slaughter of the innocent unborn.

Islamic terrorists invaded foreign soil on September 11, 2001, and murdered three thousand Americans. That was the provocation for war. We were at war the moment the first plane hit the first tower. The terrorists knew they were provoking war. And we are winning since the surge, and as I said in my latest blog post, we will win the war if the politicians don't get in the way. This will save many lives.

God Bless America, our troops, and President George W. Bush.

Ruth Hull Chatlien said...

I fail to see how Jeremiah Wright's views and the abortion rate justify an illegal war.

The 9/11 terrorists were based in Afghanistan and sponsored by its government. I clearly state I believe that war to be justified.

rhymeswithplague said...

Actually, weren't most of them from Yemen or Saudi Arabia?

Kirkepiscatoid said...

There are so many hot buttons lying in wait on this comment thread, I don't dare even get close to one. Here is what I'll get close to. Justifying war--any war--as having God's favor--is just plain wrong. That doesn't mean humans won't fight wars. But it does mean as Abraham Lincoln postulated (and I paraphrase here) it is not whether God is on our side but whether we are on God's side.

God does not need our "help." I always think of Acts 17:24,25 in moments like this: "The God who made the world and everything in it, he who is Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by human hands, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mortals life and breath and all things."

If God wants to handle something, He's perfectly capable of doing it. He does not need us to champion what we think are "his" causes, he needs us to love him and love each other. That's about all I have to say about all those hot buttons lying around.

Christy said...

I think the mean vigilante in us all wants mob justice.

I have a very ugly streak of that in me.

You're right about Iraq War II.

When I talk about people suffering under a dictator, I feel the falsehood.....if I REALLY cared, I'd be in Africa, fighting my heart out, by that logic.

But I'm not. We aren't.

This is where I know I have enough "McCain" in me to scare me.

Thanks for reining me in......

Law. That's right. LAW. Not because I feel good hanging him--I did feel good, to my shame and delight....

Good post.

Rosezilla said...

It is impossible to have a real discussion in the comments section, unfortunately. I agree with some things and disagree with others, but I only have room for a few random thoughts - 1) most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis. I find that interesting. 2)Congress is authorized to declare war. They abdicated that responsibility, but they did allow the President to do so, thereby playing either side that became popular, which is probably why they are so very unpopular right now. (If you try to please everybody...) 3)the UN did sanction the war, by voting a resolution to use any means necessary to ensure that Saddam must allow the SEARCH for WMD's. (By the way, apparently Saddam said after his capture that he was more afraid of Iran than the U.S. and he didn't want Iran to know he didn't have the weapons). 4) Iraq is most definitely safer than before, esp. since the surge, which by all accounts, even Barack Obama's, has worked beautifully.
5) We definitely need to be very careful in speaking for God as to whose side He may or may not be on. We need to be even more careful to be sure we are in His will before we do something 6) I do believe in the rule of law, and I don't want to lose all my civil liberties because of terrorism, because then they've won anyway 7) I hope whoever we vote in as President does a good job with this and everything else - and I hope it is John McCain!

Christy said...

I, too, agree with different parts of different comments....

Which just goes to show why you have to listen and negotiate instead of acting rashly out of anger and false justification.

I do have one question....might there never be a time to ignore the law and go with your gut?

I can see some things....like Nazi resistors harboring Jews--against a law--not because THEY were attacked but out of a sense of right.

I know this is a far-fetched comparison.....

Maybe, just MAYBE, international law was insufficient or ineffective--and not bound to get any better.

How much time DO we wait?

But again.....the whole lie about WMD's and such, and the blind eye turned to areas where we have no economic horse in the race, so to speak tells me there is something wrong.

Even if the spiteful person in me says the ends justifies the means.

It is really just important that we all THINK, and not get mad and shut down.

This is my problem with McCain (and Palin) in general. Their minds are more closed than open, IMO.

Sometimes even closed minds are right though.......

Ruth Hull Chatlien said...

Kirkepiscatoid, Christy, and Tracie, thanks for engaging with this in an analytical way. I think dialogue is essential to democracy, and I'd much rather people pose tough questions that just rubber stamp this post.

Elizabeth G. said...

Wow, this was well thought out and well written.

I think we had the moral right to fight in Afghanastan (sp?), which is where Al-Quaeda was centered. However, Iraq was a much iffier situation.

I remember being a little jarred by Palin using God's name in regards to the Iraq war. That bothered me. I liked most of her speech, but that bothered me.

Ruth, do you remember the words of Abraham Lincoln. They went something like...I care less about whether God is on my side than whether or not I am on the side of God...Do you know that quote? I think that sums it up. Wish we thought more like him.

Blessings,
Elizabeth

Dawn said...

Great post, and such interesting comments! I have to say, that comment by Palin gives me chills. I've been reading Jesus for President, by Shane Claiborne and Chris Haw-it's on this very topic. In this book, is a excerpt from a speech Father Zabelka gave on the 40th anniversary of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki- he had come to regret lending moral and religious support to these events...he was the one who last prayed for the pilots who dropped the bombs. What he said in his speech says it all for me...[I struggled. I argued. But yes, there it was in the Sermon on the Mount, very clear: "Love your enemies. Return good for evil." I went through a crisis of faith. Either accept what Christ said, as unpassable and silly as it may seem, or deny him completely.]
I don't think we can ask for God's blessing on something that goes against his teachings.

Joan said...

Good discussion. Palin's remark rubbed me the wrong way and then I relaxed a bit and thought that expression is part of her particular vernacular and in a manner of speaking, we are all on a mission from God. I am trying to learn about her and give her the benefit of the doubt just as I gave Obama the benefit of the doubt with Rev. Wright. Certain language can raise my hackles and I am trying to examine that.
Her comment did bother me...

xoxoxoxoxo

Christy said...

Joan! What wise words!

I wish I could always remember to check my own preconceptions at the door.

I cannot.

But I try.

Presbyterian Gal said...

What a great post, Ruth. And interesting comments.

Palin's comment bothered me on so many levels. If the current ethical allegations abuses she is charged with pan out, it will be the cherry on top of the sundae of how she likely justifies abuse of position as a job fringe benefit. And that scares the willies out of me.

Plus I believe that God's concern in war is for all of us. Both sides. All sides. Not just one side. In making this statement, Palin is claiming to know the mind of God (which I find arrogant and idolatrous), and judging and condemning the Iraquis. The terrorists claim to be fighting for God as well. Does this mean God is now a two party system? I don't think so.

Perhaps people have forgotten that it was the U.S. government who put Sadam Hussein in power to begin with to protect the US oil interests. When he got too big for his britches, the US could not clandestinely go in and take him out as the "rule of law" had changed internationally. So the only way to "fire" him, so to speak, was under an act of war. Reasons for which have proven to be a lie.

What I resent now in this campaign is the atrocious level of lying that is going on, by both sides (though the scales seem to tip on the side of the Republicans and not in a good way) to the American people about the candidates and their records and so called qualifications. That is just evil. They call it "spin". It's lying.

And that is what this country seems to have come to. Scares the wahoozies outta me.

Ruth Hull Chatlien said...

Elizabeth, Dawn, Joan, and LJ, thanks for contributing to make this an interesting discussion.

just as an FYI, I regret having responded to the first comment. I've decided to let the thread just run and not "answer" various arguments, because I've already stated my views and I think we can learn a lot from an open discussion in which people can say what they think without worrying that I'm going to come back and try to shut them down. (Unless, of course, any comments become abusive. Those I'll delete.)

Christy said...

Pres. Gal, you made me think!

I guess God COULD be two-party...or three-party...or even with the terrorists only. Or maybe God doesn't care at all who wins.

So if we totally take God out of it--which seems the only way to do it, sometimes--what works?

Nationalism?

Secular humanism?

Machiavellianism?

I guess my point is that it is very hard NOT to have some kind of biased view, even as vague as "right" or "wrong". What if they disagree about even those basic terms?

Is it intuition in the end, instinct only, that tells us who/what to side with?

Seems all the high-falutin' arguments are unproveable.

Missy said...

Oh, bless you. What a wonderful rant. This is *not* God's war.

Last night I was in a discussion about obedience and faith; somehow we got talking about war and how the soldiers on the ground don't have the big picture. It was in reference to the HBO series Band of Brothers. In that show it was WWII; the soldiers had fierce loyalty to their mission and to each other, even though they didn't know what was going on in the war or why they were going where they were going or doing what they were doing. It's part of being a soldier.

We can't blame the military for doing their job. To be cohesive and successful they must have blind trust. The blame for this useless and bloody war rests squarely on the shoulders of our leaders who send them out to fight.

Ruth Hull Chatlien said...

Missy, thanks for making that distinction.

afeatheradrift said...

Excellent post Ruth. I saw your comments on some other blogs and realized you were quite shocked by Palin's remarks. I had read them as well. I too am frightened of people who try to use God as their prop to justify actions. It is almost always wrong IMO. I agree fully that this was a war of choice, one that had been planned long before 9/11 in the minds of Rummy and Cheney and others. This has been well documented. The pre-emptive strike idea had been fashioned also before 9/11. 9/11 just gave the excuse to fashion a claim (false as it was) that all of it fit together. I must say you got some interesting comments.

FranIAm said...

Ruth- oh my, what an outstanding post.

You have so clearly elucidated so many important points and so very well.

We have indeed become the very thing we are fighting- in psychology this would be known as projection.

And in spiritual terms it is about our inability as a nation to embrace the leper within.

Today I went to hear Greg Mortensen speak- he wrote 3 Cups of Tea, a book that I highly recommend.

He spoke beautifully about how hope must trump fear.

This whole situation that we are in politically is all driven by and for and about fear and relies on more fear.

And fear of God, as Palin articulated or some misguided notion that God loves us best is just wrong.

Speaking of which, not to toy with your commenters, but Jennifer the first one is mistaken - this was not founded to be a Christian country and it is that very thought that fuels a lot of what we are in now.

And gives us the likes of Sarah Palin, IMO.

Diane Vogel Ferri said...

thanks for such a thought provoking post Ruth. Whenever I hear this was linked to God I just want to simply say What would Jesus do?

Border Explorer said...

This is perhaps the best blog post I've read all summer. Ruth, you expressed yourself so clearly and boldly. I sincerely thank you.

I am fascinated by the dissension expressed in some comments and appreciate the honesty and civility of these responses.

I am a passifist and agree with the entire post as a citizen as well as a Christian. I'm irked when politicians close their speeches with a routine "God bless America." God blesses the entire world, without exception. God is not blessing ungodly behavior, no matter who perpetrates it.

As a nation, as individuals and as one humanity, we need to think globally and inclusively, whatever name we give God, whether or not we acknowledge a god.

grace said...

"it chills me to the core. That's jihadist talk, the rhetoric of holy war... Have we become the very thing we're fighting?"

I think so. What both sides of the so-called "war on terror" have in common is that both see themselves as innocent victims acting in self-defence against the agression/oppression of the other. In Islamist thinking, 9/11 was an act designed to defend the Muslim world against the imperialist decadence of the West, a retaliation against the US media imperialism instilling Western sexual values aross the globe, trade protectionism keeping the Third World in poverty, energy overconsumption overheating the planet... and much more.

So I don't think it's helpful to the conflict or to anyone's faith for the US Right to keep invoking God to justify the war. It just ups the stakes and turns up the heat on all sides...

Ginni Dee said...

I'm fascinated by your post and the comments that accompany it.

I don't like to talk politics much but I pray for the candidates and for the United States, that the best man wins. And whoever that is, has moral character and is true and honest.

RE: Sarah Palin...Just for a laugh...I heard her referred to as "Caribou Barbie". I thought that was funny!! I found it a bit difficult to take her seriously. She reminds me of Tina Fey from Saturday Night Live and she has a way of talking and demeanor that remind me of a comedienne!

And P.S. I know this doesn't really have anything to do with your point, but I loved Blues Brothers and Blues Brothers 2!!!

Rosezilla said...

Yes, actually, we were founded as a Christian nation. Read anything by or about Christopher Columbus, Queen Isabella, the original settlers such as William Penn, the signers of the Declaration of Independence, George Washington...our laws are taken from the Bible and our rights are called God given, which is why they can't be taken away by man. History cannot be rewritten.

It chilled me to hear Barack talking about people being bitter and therefore clinging to religion, by the way.

Christy said...

That is true, we were founded by slave owners too.

Some things seem to naturally fall away in the light of education/science/progress.

I think we're in a painful phase, the USA. I think we will not be Number One in the world anymore (just like in 40 years, Caucasians will be a minority! Cool...)....Maybe there will BE no number one in the world. Maybe nationalism will become passe, and all this talk of our great country and founders will morph into what's best for humanity.

And that will most assuredly have to be more secular.

Maybe not in my lifetime....but I am healthy, so....

Btw, I loved "Caribou Barbie"!

Tee-hee.

Lauralew said...

I'm so sorry I came late to this discussion due to my company... I live this conversation every day since Taciturn was brainwashed by having to watch Fox News each day (the only TV station carried by military TV networks) when he was deployed in support of Iraqi Freedom.

My issue is that if we so live in fear that we have to make our country less free so we won't be attacked, what is there to defend?
What happened to the good old US?

Don't get me started.

VERY IMPORTANT post, Ruth. Thank you.

Christy said...

Oh, yeah....I meant caucasians would be a minority in the USA...

CJM-R said...

Ruth,

What an interesting post. I wish I could write as well as you do to express myself.

I so agree with what you wrote, and enjoyed reading the comments.

These next 60 days are going to be exciting and difficult for all.

sp said...

Trust okay to respond to a wonderful blog, thanks ruth. Sorry if a bit wordy, this is your blog.. ikes. You just got me to think.=-) ( all i will say- )

The response to the poster, chrissy?, who addresses abortion has that unique perspective- 'let's advocate for life in the womb, but after that let's say 'killing is okay'... if oil is an issue?'
I loved the term coined by a writer, about the " seamless garment" which proposes the thread of ' concern' to run with the life in all domains, from beginning to end... if ' so pro life'.

One writer, Richard Rohr, spoke of the fundamentalist model as a contradictory level of consciousness taken to heal or build community. (God as a bully, etc)
Americans are diverse- and she may speak for some within her assumptions.
I think the question, who is able to represent the diversity and build bridges for this diverse America.
Obama's skills are there.
McCain thinks the middle class starts with any who are making five million or less. He owns so many houses, he forgets how many.
His speech sounded like a read from a story book.


Thanks for your spirit of welcome to the diverse within good will!

Happy weekend Ruth and others with such open minded and good hearted hope of being with a diversity that is all reflective of the Creator.
Btw, Obama disassociated with Wright, to that poster.. sorry..also Palin, went to five colleges. Seems a bit much. Who is she to insult his ability?

sp said...

oops, part of my comment was in response to a poster that had the name of jenniferw, that i had issue.. not crissy. sorry.
appreciated the spirit and intelligence of a blog with such tapestry of hope.

take care.

Ruth Hull Chatlien said...

Sherry, Fran, Diane, BE, Grace, Ginni, Lauralew, Lena, Susan, Christy (again), and Tracie (again) thank you for your comments.

I think that we're all agreed that these are not easy questions, nor do they come with easy answers. I have appreciated your engagement with my thoughts on the issues.

susan said...

I saw this earlier today and didn't have a chance to comment. What a wonderfully thoughtful post...and the comments...wow! I don't agree with many of them, yet most are well thought out and repectful of other opinions. This could so easily have gotten ugly.

As for Palin, I can understand why she claims the war is God's Will, after all countries have been claiming that they are the favored ones for all time. What really makes me wonder about her is her statement that it is God's Will to lay the pipeline in Alaska.

I had learned years ago that our constituion was purposly NOT based on any reliogion. So I looked it up and found some interesting stuff. I really liked this quiz http://www.ffrf.org/quiz/ffrfquiz.php It's on a secular site, but is very informative. I was surprised by some of the answers. I encourage everyone to take it just to see what you know.

Anonymous said...

Ruth , you have courage, and I agree with your position.,completely.
If the Republicans are elected this frightening woman could easily become the President, should Mr McCains health fail.

I think htat is a scary thought for the world community.

Pam (YQ)

Diane said...

I'm sorry I'm so late to this. I have been very busy lately.

To the person who commented on when it is right to go around the rule of law, as Nazi resisters did, I think it is when those in power think THEY are above the law. They created laws that allowed them to do unspeakable things.

I believe that we are NOT a Christian nation, as such (not a theocracy, like Iran), but we have to understand that we are a nation with a lot of Christian people in it.

This was an excellent post, Ruth.

Ruth Hull Chatlien said...

Susan, thanks for that URL. I added it to today's post.

Pam, welcome. Good to see you here.

Diane, thanks for making those distinctions.

Trish said...

Ruth....

Not being in the midst of this very tough election....I feel somewhat inadequate to comment. Inadequate? No...not really....tough election? When you only have two parties and the line is so distinctly drawn...not tough either I guess. I am glad to be Canadian in this multi-party system with more choice. However...how much choice does one need? Canadian's watch this 'play' down south with much interest and perhaps without enough worry. I have a strong opinion on your post and you probably know it. Suffice it to say that I have watched the past weeks's speeches with alarm. I wonder...just where is the U.S. headed should war mongers still remain in the white house. And the little cousin to the north will have no choice then....

Thanks for having the courage to speak up....liberty to say what is sometimes hard to say...wisdom to be honest and sensitive to all who have a right to express their beliefs. I mean ALL! Wow...tough times...but opportunities like never before!

Christy said...

I just HAD to say...I was being a bit flip when I responded to a comment about this being a Christian country by saying the founders were also slave owners.

For one, I know this country was not founded as a Christian one...I meant that most people back then were at least Deists, and it was a more devout time, in general.

And slavery was tolerated, and certainly we've evolved from there.....

(I was a political science major and I just couldn't leave that standing!!! LOL Ego....)

fiwa said...

Ruth, I hate conflict, so I though my opinions are strong on this subject, I'm not going to join in the debate. Instead I AM just going to rubber stamp and say "Right ON!". And I'm in awe of you for being brave enough to post your thoughts on this subject, and in such a well thought out way.

Kudos to all the commenters too, for not letting a touchy subject get ugly.

Leann said...

Excellent post and it gives much food for thought as well as some hot topics to think about.

IMHO War is never God's plan. Battles perhaps, but never war.